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6.86+

Talk about anything DotA-related.
Hi-Van
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Re: 6.86+

Postby Hi-Van » Aug 17th, '16, 03:11

I pzdc kak agree with ghostdlr :opasnoste:

ShadowD
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Re: 6.86+

Postby ShadowD » Aug 20th, '16, 21:07

Coming soon?

khoinp1012
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Re: 6.86+

Postby khoinp1012 » Aug 22nd, '16, 12:43

DracoL1ch wrote:
SquiGGLez wrote:I don't see why people want to keep parity with dota 2. In my opinion Valve has ran dota 2 into the ground making it progressively worse with every patch starting with 6.82. The new map changes with all the ramps to the high-ground areas, extra offlane jungle camps, iron talon, and hero remakes are complete and utter shit.

You have a great opportunity to take the game in a better direction.

guess who we have here, a visioner. tell us which direction may fit better than the one which chosen by 9 mln audience and followed by icefrog himself. are you playing 5.84c still?

English is not my native language. But I hope most of you can understand my reply. My ideas in big pictures:
Game Balance
- Public oriented. This is the most important concept for me for redesign Dota. I will make the game less depend on your ally, especially on supporters. As you know, Dota is a well-balanced games for teaming/group-working. However, it’s not well defined for public game. I will explain you why:
- Few heroes are very strong in public games. They might be very weak or inefficient when your team connected, but in public games, can you ask for a connected teammate?
+ Barathrum: In competitive match, Barathrum is not so wonderful because when he casts CoD on you, your ally will help. However, in public games, when he casts CoD on you, no one will help you. And his skill set is very powerful when 1v1 – longggg-time bash.
+ Legion Commander: He will Duel your noob teammate, after get +200 damages, he will Duel you!
+ Doom: When he casts his ultimate on you, you will become a creep.
+ Void: A truly permanent bash.
+ Huskar: Counter too many heroes
- Utility items are expensive and hero-type dependent. I can guarantee, Force Staff is a very good item and sometimes they can turn the tide to the combat. However, in public games, almost no one will build it to save you! So I will make it cheaper, so you can build it and save yourself. Same idea with Diffusal Blade and Orchid, right? You won’t build a DB if you’re Str or Int hero; you won’t build a Orchid if you’re a tanker. I will make these utilities items are less expensive or buildable to all type of heroes.
- I will make Ward/Dust/Courier will cheaper. Why? So you can buy it by yourself. You don’t need to rely on supporter.
- You can use 8 item-slot (by putting it inside 1st and 2nd item slot in the circle). Why? Less depend on supporters mean you need more slot for Ward, Sentry, Force Staff, etc.
- Moreover, I will nerf the hero too strong in 1v1 (Faceless Void, Doom) or too strong public games (Barathurm, Legion Commander, Huskar). If no one help you (always happen in public-game), you can survive when face them.
- Add more and more "strategic heroes" to Dota. What does it means? You can see in Dota, few heroes and ability are very UNIQUE and IT’S SOUND VERY POWERFUL WHEN YOU USE IT RIGHT-TIME, RIGHT-PLACE, RIGHT-TARGET, like:
+ Shadow Grave (Dazzle)
+ Promise (Oracle)
+ Doom
+ Berserker's Blood (Huskar)
From my point of view, UNIQUE mean STRATEGIC. Why? Because these skills can extremely useful when combine (or counter) with another or extremely high potential. For example: A nice Magic Missle could not significant change the combat; but a nice Neither Swap, nice Promise, or even nice Blade Mail could do. This reason make Dota more strategic than LoL as well as other MOBA. Especially, I will make few Terrain-control hero.
- In general, my philosophies for design hero are strategic skill (unique, extremely useful with right-situation) and well-round skill (a skill inspiration by heroes’ biography or combine well with the other skill of the owner)

Design policy in next 2 years
- Design from Dota 6.85k.
- Due to Dota already a very balanced game. I only remake or significant-nerf or modify about 15 heroes, these heroes (Razor, LC, Barathrum, Orge Magi, Blood Seeker) and about 20 items.
- Most of the other heroes will slightly buff by add 5th non-upgradable ability to all heroes. After a hero is picked, this skill will automatic add to the hero, these skills will never be leveled up

Design schedule
- New changes release in about 3 months.
- In the first year, focus on remake or modified 15 public-imbalance-heroes or not-well-round skill set. Add 5th ability to every hero. Add new hero every release.
- Modified utility items include: Force Staff, Orchid, Purge to make them suitable for almost heroes. Make almost AoE items (partial) stack.
- Except the changes I list above, I will not change on gameplay or heroes/items. Many changes, in early time, could lead the Dota-fan shock. I will make significant changes until I got a big fan base.

Few examples:
Heroes
Vengeful Spirit
- Neither swap: Amplify-foe or reduce-friend 15% any incoming damage to the target in 3 second after cast. Amply to caster as well (always reduce, of course).
- Add 5th ability – Soul bound: When cast on the teammate, VS and the teammate will split 30% income damage to each others. For example: If VS get 100 damage, VS will get 85 and friendly hero will gets 15 (vice-versa). No mana-cost, last 6s, 15s cooldown, 600 cast range.
Crystal Maiden
- Brilliance aura: Twice the regen in 900 areas around owner.
- Freezing Field with screpter upgrade: When CM casts her Freezing Field, create an Ice Tower around the caster, delay any damage and negative effect in 1,5 second (it means she can always cast Freeze Field at least 1,5s with Screpter)
- Freezing Field’s duration up to 45s with Screpter.
- 5th skills - It's cold!!:
+ Passive: Slow 8% AS and MS enemy unit in 900 areas around her. The slow double if enemy is in river area.
+ Active: When cast on and friendly unit, make them feel only 70% income damage. 15% of the damage will be felt in the end of the effect (15% damage block). Last 8s. Cd: 60s. Manacost: 50
Barathrum
- Replace Empowering Haste with Red Flag
+ Red Flag: The caster can put a Red Flag in the battlefield. Whenever Barathrum face toward the Flag, his movement speed improve. However, if Barathrum facing opposite the Flag, his movement will be decrease. Barathrum can cast Charge of Darkness to the Red Flag. If Barathrum cast charge of darkness to the Red Flag, he will push any enemy unit until he reach the Red Flag (bash-proc still occur once) or being interrupt. Deal dame twice, when he collide them and when he reaches the flag. 1200 cast range, no manacost, 25s cooldown, 15s duration.
+ 6/10/14/18% movement speed increase, 3/5/7/9% reduce, 60/90/120/150 damage.
- Charge of darkness now shows the indicator to the enemy.
- Greater Bash stun duration reduce to 1.2s.
- Add 5th ability: Go with me! Barathrum can cast this ability to an ally hero and take him in his back. The ally hero can get out any time when issues an attack order or cast any skill. While inside Barathrum, the ally gets the same damage Barathrum get. 50 manacost, 20s cooldown, 200 cast range (skill starts cooldown whenever the ally jump out Barathrum). Can be cast while charge of darkness.
Earth shaker:
- Enchant totem: Increase attack damage of the next attack by 60/120/180/240 damage
- Add 5th ability: Shake the earth:
+ Passive: Earth Shaker attacks more 40% damages on building
+ On cast, Earth Shaker cut through any terrain, make the terrain in front of him passable. Aoe: 300, CD: 20s, Manacost: 50, last 6s.

Item:
- Radiance: Stack 5 damage per illusion own radiance, stack 30 damage per hero own radiance. Maximum stack damage is 30. For example: A hero affected by radian of PL plus 2 illusions, the damage per second he got is 50+5+5 = 60
- Mekansm: Half of the on-active bonus is stackable infinitely. For example: The second/third Mekansm active before 25s of the first Mekansm will heal 125/250 and 1/2 armor instead of 250/500 and 2/4 armor. The aura is not stack.
- Pipe of insight: Half of the on-active bonus is stackable infinitely. The aura is not stack.
- Force staff: Remake! Combine from BoS, BoE, RotM and 450 receipt, + 7 to all stats with old Force Staff ability.
- Add new item: Fire Frog – add 6 to your main attribute but -1 in the other attribute. 300 gold in Main Shop. In the future, all item with tradeoff (Soul Ring, Mask of Madness…) must be include this item.
- Diffusal Blade: Remake! Combine from 2x Blade of Alacrity, Ring of Protection and a FireFrog. Add 20 agility, 3 armor and 7 main attribute. Remove Purge ability from DB. DB grant new ability instead: Wreck off!!!
+ Wreck off: The caster gains 25 damage and 25 attack speed with the tradeoff of 10 armor. The ability cooldown 22s, the gain last 15s but the tradeoff last 22s.
- Add new item: Exorcism Necklace – combine from Ultimate Orb, FireFrog and a 400 receipt. Add 11 to all stats, 7 to your main attribute. Active ability: Purge (from old DB)
- Divine Rapier: Remake! Combine from Sacred Relic and HyperStone. Add 250 damage and 100 AS. Drop upon death – of course
- Observer ward and sentry ward: Cost reduce to 50 each OW or SW.

Gameplay
- 8 item slots. Now each player can use the first and second slot in the circle. Whenever an item put inside these slot, its aura and bonus affect the hero. However, you cannot active any item in these slots. You also cannot put GoTS or Divine Rapier in them.

The above road map as well as above examples roughly show my ideas. If you want to make a new road to Dota-Allstar, I would say I also interesting on it.
I want to make clear again that English is not my native language.
Last edited by khoinp1012 on Aug 22nd, '16, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.

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RokKnyaz
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Re: 6.86+

Postby RokKnyaz » Aug 22nd, '16, 13:01

unsup
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shers
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Re: 6.86+

Postby shers » Aug 22nd, '16, 14:40

khoinp1012 wrote:/a long long post/


It is not dota-like maps coders' forum. We are making DotA 2 in Warcraft 3. I hope you may to find some peoples who will do your own DotA and make your idea in your own map but there everything will be just ported from DotA 2
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ghostdlr
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Re: 6.86+

Postby ghostdlr » Aug 23rd, '16, 11:31

When is new map coming ? :opasnoste:

Gba228
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Re: 6.86+

Postby Gba228 » Aug 23rd, '16, 17:57

ghostdlr wrote:When is new map coming ? :opasnoste:

NEVER!!! Kappa

khoinp1012
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Re: 6.86+

Postby khoinp1012 » Aug 24th, '16, 05:52

Hey, I think few of you don’t understand my ideas properly.
I know porting Dota 2 to Dota 1 is not an easy and lightweight job. However, the real problem is game-engine. Can you port everything from Dota 2 to Dota 1? Today, the answer might be “Yes!”. But, on tomorrow, can you guarantee the answer still be the same?
I believe, even GUARANTEE, one day you cannot port “something” from Dota 2 to Dota 1. These days will come, sooner or later.
What would you do on these days? Ignore these features/skills /items from Dota 2 and port the other features instead? If a hero couldn't bring to Dota 1, just remove it! If an item could not be programmed in Dota 1, just remove it! They are not bad ideas. However, if a gameplay-change could not be adopted to Dota 1, could you just ignore it?
One more thing I want to remind you, Dota 2 is not Dota 1. Dota 2 is Valve property and Dota 1 is a community-driven project. I think Dota 1 always should be a community-driven project – especially in DESIGN and DEVELOP. If it’s not DESIGN by the community, it’s not a community project anymore.
I really don’t understand what is inside the IceFrog mind? Dota 1 is not his personal possession. Dota 1 is a community property since Eul left and open-source his map. Because it’s made of thousand ideas and feedbacks from users from dozens of years, even its website Dota-Allstar and PlayDota still come from community support. IceFrog is not the one who found/created the map, he just a developer who heritage the map. No one can claim Dota 1 is IceFrog personal property. All previous developers of Dota 1 (Eul, Guisoo…), when they think they cannot continue to contribute of development, they give it back to the community and community continue develop it. But now, when IceFrog stops the development of Dota 1, he doesn’t give it back to community. I really don’t understand what is in his mind.
Dota 1 is dying and its golden era has gone and would never came back. However, Dota 1 community is not so small. There are few hundreds thousand people still play it (only estimated) and Dota 1 still had many fans (like me and you). If you EVER consider an ALTERNATIVE ROUTER for your Dota Allstars, splitting from Dota 2 is UNESCAPABLE and might be THE ONLY WAY.
English is not my native language!!!

Karaulov
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Re: 6.86+

Postby Karaulov » Aug 24th, '16, 06:56

Если бы D2 не одобрили игроки они не играли бы в эту игру, но играют же значит их все устраивает)

Gba228
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Re: 6.86+

Postby Gba228 » Aug 24th, '16, 08:21

khoinp1012 wrote:Hey, I think few of you don’t understand my ideas properly.
I know porting Dota 2 to Dota 1 is not an easy and lightweight job. However, the real problem is game-engine. Can you port everything from Dota 2 to Dota 1? Today, the answer might be “Yes!”. But, on tomorrow, can you guarantee the answer still be the same?
I believe, even GUARANTEE, one day you cannot port “something” from Dota 2 to Dota 1. These days will come, sooner or later.
What would you do on these days? Ignore these features/skills /items from Dota 2 and port the other features instead? If a hero couldn't bring to Dota 1, just remove it! If an item could not be programmed in Dota 1, just remove it! They are not bad ideas. However, if a gameplay-change could not be adopted to Dota 1, could you just ignore it?
One more thing I want to remind you, Dota 2 is not Dota 1. Dota 2 is Valve property and Dota 1 is a community-driven project. I think Dota 1 always should be a community-driven project – especially in DESIGN and DEVELOP. If it’s not DESIGN by the community, it’s not a community project anymore.
I really don’t understand what is inside the IceFrog mind? Dota 1 is not his personal possession. Dota 1 is a community property since Eul left and open-source his map. Because it’s made of thousand ideas and feedbacks from users from dozens of years, even its website Dota-Allstar and PlayDota still come from community support. IceFrog is not the one who found/created the map, he just a developer who heritage the map. No one can claim Dota 1 is IceFrog personal property. All previous developers of Dota 1 (Eul, Guisoo…), when they think they cannot continue to contribute of development, they give it back to the community and community continue develop it. But now, when IceFrog stops the development of Dota 1, he doesn’t give it back to community. I really don’t understand what is in his mind.
Dota 1 is dying and its golden era has gone and would never came back. However, Dota 1 community is not so small. There are few hundreds thousand people still play it (only estimated) and Dota 1 still had many fans (like me and you). If you EVER consider an ALTERNATIVE ROUTER for your Dota Allstars, splitting from Dota 2 is UNESCAPABLE and might be THE ONLY WAY.
English is not my native language!!!

Sry, but L1ch not give us the source code, because else we will see very much parodies of Dota.
Also sorry for my English! :spydance:

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jamrock
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Re: 6.86+

Postby jamrock » Aug 24th, '16, 11:03

DRACOOO PLS, MONKEY KING !!!!

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shers
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Re: 6.86+

Postby shers » Aug 24th, '16, 17:31

khoinp1012 wrote:...


Stop this. L1ch're NOT going to make our own DotA and he'll to port everything. Warcraft coding is harder than DotA 2 but he can do everything. Just need time. We thought wards are impossible and he made it. Some peoples told us about another DotA 2 features and he made it. So just believe he can do this and DotA Allstars will be ported from DotA 2. You may find to LoD forum and this map can be some balansed (maybe). But not there
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RokKnyaz
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Re: 6.86+

Postby RokKnyaz » Aug 24th, '16, 19:08

shers wrote:
... Just need time...

and money :D
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dotakid16
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Re: 6.86+

Postby dotakid16 » Aug 24th, '16, 22:04


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shers
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Re: 6.86+

Postby shers » Aug 25th, '16, 08:08

wow. ai map!
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shinquirer03
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Re: 6.86+

Postby shinquirer03 » Oct 18th, '16, 07:42

hoping for the version 6.86 will be released this month :) thank you dracolich!
-shinichi
Team May Itsura


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