All Star Balance ITEMS

[damasco]

-------------------------------ALL STAR BALANCE-----------------------------------------
-The new items do not end up convincing some players and even many of them would continue to receive buff during the following patches.
-It does not propose to change mechanical or add anything new, just to help the game to be more varied and entertaining. I support myself in the official patches and the RGC database.
-It makes the wait until the next patch (maybe it comes out in 2 more years) to be more entertaining.
--------------------------------------Ancient of Wonders-----------------------------
Animal Courier:
-Courier cost reduced from 100 to 50 (7.09)
*Only CM mode is shared or playing with friends.
Faerie Fire:
-Heal increased from 75 to 85 (7.08)
-Cost reduced from 75 to 70 (7.06)
Enchanted Mango:
-On sale now from 125 to 70 (7.14)
-Health regen decreased from 1 to 0.5 (7.16)
-Consumed mana restore reduced from 150 to 125 (7.14)
*They made it more versatile. In low-level games this item is unknown because of its high cost and only one use.

-------------------Cache of Quel-Thelan------------------------
Blink Dagger
Cooldown increased from 12 to 15 (7.14)
*The most used item in the TI6.614 Blink Daggers were bought total, average almost 4 blink daggers per game.Used by the carry, mid, suport, tank ... etc.
------------------Black Market--------------------------
Sentry Ward:
-Sentry Wards now come in packs of 1 for 100 gold (instead of 2 for 200) (7.02)
-Duration increased from 4 to 6 minutes (7.16)
*Very necessary to not have defined support in the game.
*It will be very healthy for the game as well as the change in the wards.
Orb of Venom:
-Slow duration reduced from 4 to 3 (7.05)
-DPS increased from 3 to 5 (7.05)
-Damage over time no longer dispels consumables or disables Blink (7.07)
-Removed from Side Shop (7.07)
-Damage per second reduced from 5 to 3 on ranged heroes (7.18)
*He received nerf after nerf for being very useful and having a low cost.Item overused in RGC.

-------------------Supportive Vestments------------------
Drum of Endurance:
-Recipe cost reduced from 700 to 575 (7.03)
-Active bonus attack speed increased from 25 to 35 (7.07)
*It was very weakened in the previous patch a small buff would allow it to be a purchase option.

--------------------Gateway Relics--------------------------------------
Soul Ring:
-Health cost increased from 150 to 170 (7.10)
-Recipe increased from 125 to 150 (7.00)
*Item overused in RGC
------------------Beggar Todd----------------------------
Moon Shard:
-Can now be cast on allied heroes (7.03)
-Attack Speed increased from 120 to 140 (7.16)
-Night vision increased from 300/150 (base/consumed) to 400/200 (7.17)
*Buff after Buff is what this item receives. 4000 gold for a consumable is for very specific situations.

-----------------Ancient Weaponary------------------------
Armlet of Mordiggian:
-HP regen reduced from 7 to 4 (7.07)
-HP cost increased from 45 to 54 (7.07)
*Everyone carries this item in RGC.
Silver Edge:
-Recipe cost increased from 300 to 600 (7.16)
-Backstab damage reduced from 225 to 175 (same as Lothar Edge) (7.03)
-Break duration decreased from 5 to 4 seconds (7.12)
*Everyone carries this item in RGC.
Bloodthorn:
-Cooldown increased from 11 to 18 (7.06)
*Silence of Orchid from 25sec to 11sec in its improvement is too much in pro games.

------------------Enchanted Artifacts---------------------
*Forgotten items that would continue to receive buff.
Sange and Yasha:
-Sange and Yasha proc chance increased from 30% to 40% (7.04)
Heaven's Halberd:
-Heaven's Halberd cooldown from 30 to 18 (7.02)
-Heaven's Halberd Maim chance increased from 20% to 35% (7.02)

----------------------Protectorate-------------------------------------
Heart of Tarrasque:
-Health bonus increased from 250 to 500 (7.06)
-Regeneration increased from 4.75% to 7% (7.00)

Blade Mail:
-Cooldown increased from 18 to 20 (7.06)
-Damage return is no longer increased by Spell Amplification (7.06c)
*Item overused in RGC.

------------------------Trophy Dealer-----------------------------------
Hurricane Pike:
-Cooldown increased from 14 to 23 (7.08)
-Hurricane Pike recipe increased from 250 to 500 (7.03)
-Mana cost increased from 25 to 100 (7.14)
*Everyone carries this item in RGC.

----------------------Arcane Sanctum----------------------------------
Aether Lens:
-Aether Lens cast range bonus increased from 200 to 220 (7.00)
-Aether Lens Spell Amplification increased from 5% to 6% (7.06)
*Before his rework
Eul's Scepter of Divinity (1)
-Bonus movement speed reduced from +40 to +30 (7.17)
Force Staff (2)
-Mana cost increased from 25 to 100 (7.14)
-Cooldown increased from 20 to 23 (7.07)
*(1) and (2) Too many items to escape or start.
Bloodstone:
-Initial charges increased from 12 to 14 (7.07)

------------Rod of atos-----------------------
*No one buys this apart from the highly organized games. It is the only item that I consider necessary to change the recipe right now.
Old:
===
Requires:
2x Staff of Wizardry (2000)
1x Vitality Booster (1100)
Total: 3100
Provides:
+30 Intelligence
+350 Health
New:
===
Requires:
1x Staff of Wizardry (1000)
2x Bracer (1050)
Recipe (1000)
Total: 3050

Provides:
+20 Intelligence
+15 Strength
+6 Agility
+6 Damage

-Cripple slow increased from 60% to 100%
-Cripple duration reduced from 4 to 2 ....(basically series 7.xx)
-Cooldown increased from 10 to 16 7.00

Consider it please.Thanks

[zaksor]

and i thought i was good at punctoation

[Karhstain]

сыро, есть дыры
реворкни атос главное, он юзлес сейчас

[pastmistake]

Pretty sure it says 6.88 map version when u open map.
So why would there be 7.00 map changes in it ?

Also, can you guys (@Karhstain) keep it in english , if you gonna reply in the english subforum ?! It's about respecting others.

[playerv]

You really should consider updating the elements to versions 7.xx,
it would help a lot with the balance of the game

Currently, the silver edge is the most used element of dota1 due to the great imbalance it represents, the Blade Mail and Mordiggian are not far behind.

sorry for my bad English
I speak very little this language

[Mortrus]

@pastmistake, in the current we are using some balance from 7+ dota (for example Tome of Knowledge exp)
And it's kinda greeted some balance features, and they may be also added to the map.

[Karhstain]

man, my last post for dracoluch & Co
u understand?

[pastmistake]

Ya. Ok. But balance is an overall thing, that involves not only items but also heroes and mechanics.
It's easier for dota 1 map version to follow the dota 2, since they already thought of and had more tests on those map values. This should give devs less stress and stuff to worry about.

Doing this intermediary/unnatural balancing will only delay the 7.00.

Unless the morph and monkeyking are not updated to 7.00+ and talents are added, i see no point on skipping to 7.00+ map updates/versions.
This is not TI8 stuff. I`m sure there's nobody really affected that much about these temporary "imbalances". None of them are game-changing.

---------------
It's called respecting others..
you understand ?

And is not like they don't know english.

[DracoL1ch]

7.00 delayed because of mechanics which are still questionable in terms of codeability, thats a major stone, which kills the spirit instantly. Porting some balance from future versions isn't bad as long as it's really obviously needed, a-la sentry wards splitting to 1 per pack, tome of exp buff, etc etc

[zaksor]

Blade Mail:
-Cooldown increased from 18 to 20 (7.06)
-Damage return is no longer increased by Spell Amplification (7.06c)
*Item overused in RGC.

Blademail isn't overused per se , you see its a situational item that suites most situations , thats why its picked up alot ,much like tangoes or wards, so stop picking Slark.
The only item that i think needs some more love is Rod of Atos , it's picked up as much as goals scored in opening matchups..... minus 5

[DracoL1ch]

Indeed blademail is poor's man thing #1, IDK where this love comes from, but it pretty irritating

[damasco]

Thanks for the attention, I just wanted to clarify some points.
-The 6.88 map was good but it lacks a lot to be perfect.
-They are not changes for an TI but they are for something more important, the daily game of thousands of RGC users.It's more important than professional players who play as a team and who practically live on this.
-There are many affected players who are already bored with the abuse of some heroes and "dota 2" is not the exception just look at this table: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played
*Pudge≈ 1 out of 2 games - Chen ≈ 1 out of 100 games (7.18)
*In RGC the difference is worse (6.88w3)
-You can see the defects of this map in the later ones.
-People ask the king monkey, pangolier, dark willow but if they do not play a lot of heroes even when they add them it will be something like this:
Monkey ≈ carry used
Pangolier≈ new earth spirit (1 out of 1000 games)
Dark Willow≈ like pugna,sky,doctor...etc (1 out of 100 games)naga,chen,io,oracle,leviathan,broomother...

Please Mr. draco a balance patch like 6.83 or 6.85
6.88w3 to 6.89a (even the name is simpler)

[pastmistake]

Actually a balanced hero is the one closer to 50% winrate . So in this case pudge (+53%) is a lot more balanced than LoneDruid (+37%). Because he's closer to the center of the winrate. Not to mention has over 8M games, and is closer to 50%. I can say he's actually the most balanced hero in that dotabuff list.

So actually in this case, pudge is not OP, but rather lonedruid is too weak.
Now comes the 2nd part, whereas they are on a different required experience. LD needs a more experienced player.

And another very important factor is the teamplay. Pudge is said to be OP in RGC ,because the lack of teamplay and counterpicks.
I can show you a list of playing vs pudge players and they rarely won against me, because of the simple fact I don't random my hero, made bad item choices or make bad picks.

I remember a time 2-3y ago, where tiny and legion was considered REALLY OP. But they were like that from the same reason: no team play, no warding. They didn't suffer major nerfs from then to now. And now their winrate decreased a lot.

Issue is people usually expect to win games with random picks.

Dark Willow≈ like pugna,sky,doctor...etc (1 out of 100 games)naga,chen,io,oracle,leviathan,broomother...

I`m sorry, but pugna, sky, brood are still strong heroes. And the others: naga, chen, io, leviathan , oracle, those are strong support heroes that can't do shit if your carry sucks. But are very strong if there is teamplay.

You're giving RGC as a feedback. Bur you should know better, that the issue on RGC is the player imbalance, not the heroes. After 500 games of solo-queue, somehow, someway .. i`m 78%winrate. And after 200 consecutive Terroblade games i was 93% winrate. So ask yourself what hero is actually OP ?!

[damasco]

Actually a balanced hero is the one closer to 50% winrate . So in this case pudge (+53%) is a lot more balanced than LoneDruid (+37%). Because he's closer to the center of the winrate. Not to mention has over 8M games, and is closer to 50%. I can say he's actually the most balanced hero in that dotabuff list.

I mean the pick rate and not the hero's win rate.Pick rate:Pudge 44% vs 1% Lone druid (I really mention Chen 0.86%)
There is a problem here.

Now comes the 2nd part, whereas they are on a different required experience. LD needs a more experienced player.

That may justify your pick rate a bit but not too much. As for the gaming experience this would not justify Tiny, Puck, NP, Death Prophet (win rate and pick rate <3.%)

And another very important factor is the teamplay. Pudge is said to be OP in RGC ,because the lack of teamplay and counterpicks.
I can show you a list of playing vs pudge players and they rarely won against me, because of the simple fact I don't random my hero, made bad item choices or make bad picks.

Pudge OP in RGC(6.88w3)? when Naix is ​​selected in 1 out of 3 games.

I remember a time 2-3y ago, where tiny and legion was considered REALLY OP. But they were like that from the same reason: no team play, no warding. They didn't suffer major nerfs from then to now. And now their winrate decreased a lot.

Actually Legion received a "nerf" corrected the bug of his passive that canceled the damage to 0 (passives corrected in Allstar "Moment of Courage" and "Counter Helix")that killed his jungle they played it in RGC.

I`m sorry, but pugna, sky, brood are still strong heroes. And the others: naga, chen, io, leviathan , oracle, those are strong support heroes that can't do shit if your carry sucks. But are very strong if there is teamplay

6.88 Report:
-Pugna was chosen once (TI6)and in RGC basically all the popular items ruin their ultimate (lothar,bkb,blade mail,linken..etc) until Lotus Orb (CM mode)
-Sky has potential, it hurts that in RGC abound their counter hero (Naix,Huskar or Blood)
-Brood is very very situational.

You're giving RGC as a feedback. Bur you should know better, that the issue on RGC is the player imbalance, not the heroes. After 500 games of solo-queue, somehow, someway .. i`m 78%winrate. And after 200 consecutive Terroblade games i was 93% winrate. So ask yourself what hero is actually OP ?!

According to the players but it is not the only problem but how would be explained the low win rate that Lycan or Tiny had in 6.88 in pubs and in the TI6 17%win rate.Of course there are players who have a high win rate and know how to play with all the heroes (miracle, dendi, Abed ...) even in RGC there are good players but the endowment can not be only for a few.


The only thing I propose is a more versatile goal that can be done

[zaksor]

Thanks for the attention, I just wanted to clarify some points.
-The 6.88 map was good but it lacks a lot to be perfect.
-They are not changes for an TI but they are for something more important, the daily game of thousands of RGC users.It's more important than professional players who play as a team and who practically live on this.
-There are many affected players who are already bored with the abuse of some heroes and "dota 2" is not the exception just look at this table: https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played
*Pudge≈ 1 out of 2 games - Chen ≈ 1 out of 100 games (7.18)
*In RGC the difference is worse (6.88w3)
-You can see the defects of this map in the later ones.
-People ask the king monkey, pangolier, dark willow but if they do not play a lot of heroes even when they add them it will be something like this:
Monkey ≈ carry used
Pangolier≈ new earth spirit (1 out of 1000 games)
Dark Willow≈ like pugna,sky,doctor...etc (1 out of 100 games)naga,chen,io,oracle,leviathan,broomother...

Please Mr. draco a balance patch like 6.83 or 6.85
6.88w3 to 6.89a (even the name is simpler)

Pudge isn't OP per se , you see , he is a fun hero to play , hooking someone (both in real life and virtual one) produced alot of dopamine , play Pudge and you'll know what i mean.
Chen follow the same rules as Geomancer(probably even harder) , micro-managment is hard , let alone micro-managing creeps , each one has a diffrent ability , life pool , and you can control about 6 creeps (i'm not sure how many you can control , i dont play Chen , i can't micro-manage for shit , i can't even micro-manage my own hero's items) , a diffrent thing goes with Lone Druid , he's 2 heroes at the same time , most players wont bother 50mins of farming to get items for 2 heroes.
i think the only to see Chen getting picked is if Dracol1ich implement the infamous "Fountain Hooks" as a feature .... 100% Chen will picked among friends

And if you hate a hero ....simply ban him #LifeHacks_W_Zaksor

Added in 5 minutes 28 seconds:
I think what Draco is doing so far is pretty damn good (unless he reworked Treant's Nature Guise , he'll take away the ability to make the whole team invis , then i'll be pissed)

[damasco]

And if you hate a hero ....simply ban him #LifeHacks_W_Zaksor
Added in 5 minutes 28 seconds:
I think what Draco is doing so far is pretty damn good (unless he reworked Treant's Nature Guise , he'll take away the ability to make the whole team invis , then i'll be pissed)

-It is not about hating a hero it is about giving variety and versatility to the game. Dota looks like a game of 60 characters.
-Thanks to the rework in Treant Protector is that the hero was last and even used.
6.88 Report:
-(DOTA2)Pub games 3.5% pick rate 45 % win rate (5K mmr)
-(DOTA2)TI6 (pro players) Unpicked Hero (nobody used it) and here there is no excuse for the player's ability are professionals¡Irrelevant!
-(RGC) unpicked hero and losser hero.

[zaksor]

Yeah i understand what you mean , keep in mind that you can never ever ever force the community to try every single hero in every single game , because you play with diffrent people each time , and each one played a diffrent game an hour ago , a week ago , a month ago , they probably even play one of the mentioned heroes every 3 or 4 games, and even if you did force them , some other hero would be the new pain in the nick , and this conversation would spawn again (no pun intended)

The point is , "seeing" some unpicked heroes getting picked , depends on the right person , in the right time, in the right place (that excludes RGC's EU server)

every hero has a counter pick

Pudge: Ursa,Naix,
Bara: Any vision hero ,any vision item , and the best counter of all ....typing "Bara SS"
And the universal counter for every hero is Warding, i pick it in whatever role i'm in , a carry or not, it almost always save you and your team , its dirt cheap and can make your day and give 5+ points

and if he managed to bypass your counters , you should pay the player some respect , not blame the hero..... except for Techies

[Mortrus]

Don't touch Techies - he is perfect.

[TimeToFarm]

Teach from d1 good,d2 = trash

[zaksor]

Techies in both D1 and D2 is trash, it would be appreciated if Dracol1ch made Couriors immune to Mines , it would save us 200gold